StrataFrame Forum » StrataFrame Application Framework - V1 » Business Objects and Data Access (How do I?) » Assorted questions...

RE: Assorted questions...

StrataFrame Team — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:12:02 GMT

Hehe, Google translator helped a little, but it's broken English at best :D

Assorted questions...

Ben Hayat — Thu, 25 Oct 2007 09:12:02 GMT

Hi;

I came across this product last night (which kept me up till 2:00 AM :) ) and has got me pretty excited. One interesting thing is that this product is being used to develop commercial apps which is my direction. Although I'm planning to download the trail version and get into the docs, but there are some questions that the sales team did not have solid answers to them. I'll categorized them to the best I can. Perhaps some of the answers can end up on you website FAQ:

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[Deployment]
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1) When a developer purchases the development kit, security module and database toolkit, is there any runtime royalties with these kits?

2) When my app is ready for deployment, does SF offer any installation packaging system that I can use to deploy my app? (i.e. an installation that verifies whether the user has proper .Net runtime and etc.)

3) During the course of development, when the database schema changes and we are ready to send updates, is there any facility in SF to automatically convert the user's database?

4) I read that you're planning to release a middle tier server. Is there a royalty or server license fee involved? If yes, how is organized and how much? (this way we can establish a final product price when offered to users).

5) in 3 tier smart client, will it use [u]ClickOnce[/u] system for deployment?

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[Security]
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6) Can the users/roles/rights of the security be created/modified by users without the need to the developer being involved? In commercial apps, we do not want to get involved about setting users, roles and rights.

7) Is the security data stored in database? or flat file or XML?

8) When a user logs in, How does SF display what forms/reports/etc. are available to that user? Is it done via menus or some sort ot TreeView?

9) Within an app, how can certain parts or region of that form be hidden to certain users? Is that done via code or admin setup or what?

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[Development]
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10) The same way you have provided SF for WinForms, is there any plan to have ASP.Net WebForm development (using your tools) that can be used to connect to BO. This way, we can offer WinForm and WebForm of the same screens and features!

11) What's the best way developing, printouts and reports. (lots of it)

12) When new app is being developed, do we create the tables/fields/indexes in Database first then import them to SF OR do we create our BO based on OO methodology and then have SF create the appropriate data tables and their relationships?

13) [As you know] MS is working on "Entity Relationship" or vNext which allows the developer to create a diagram of his view of the system relationship regardless where the data is. Since SF has it's own O/R mapping, is this something SF might use?

14) When doing query or filtering, does the developer has to use your proprietary syntax or is it SQL code?

15) Following the above question, will you support LINQ syntax?

16) Is there any plan to support WPF for the UI?

17) What grid system do you support/prefer? Users like to see their data in matrix format (Thanks to Excel :D )

18) Are there any pre built system in SF that users can filter/search their data by different fields without developer writing all kinds of custom filters. i.e. list of customers whose balance > 2000 and State="Florida"?

19) Are there sufficient docs/tutorials to get started?

20) Do you recommend the Training Videos?

I like to thank you in advance for your time and hope to get started soon!

RE: Assorted questions...

Roberto Dutra — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:29:10 GMT

I forgot to say...

for the ones that can't read portuguese, yet, this was to help a brazilian fellow asking similar questions... :)

RE: Assorted questions...

Roberto Dutra — Tue, 23 Oct 2007 13:05:05 GMT

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[Deployment]
-------------
[quote]1) Quando um desenvolvedor adquire o kit de desenvolvimento, o módulo de segurança e o database toolkit, existem quaisquer direitos autorais no tempo de execução para eles? [/quote]

Todos os produtos constantes são livres de direitos autorais no tempo de execução. A única exceção é o Enterprise Server, camada intermediária (middle tier). Os kits para os desenvolvedores (SDK) não tem custo, mas quando você implantar o seu produto nele, haverá uma taxa anual incorrendo ao usuário final. Similar às CALs do SQL ou Citrix. O preço ainda está por ser publicado, mas o nosso desejo é ser competitivo. Quando publicadas, as taxas serão as seguintes:

Developer Toolkit (SDK) – Gratuito
USD $995 – Até 25 usuários acessando o servidor (25 CAL) / SERVER
USD $2495 – Até 100 usuários acessando o servidor (100 CAL) / SERVER
USD $4995 – Sem limite de usuários / SERVER

Todos os preços são anuais. Nota: Para incorporar esse recurso na sua aplicação, basta apenas uma simples linha de código.

[quote]2) Quando a minha aplicação está pronta para a implantação, o SF oferece algum sistema de empacotamento que eu possa utilizar para instalar a minha aplicação? (ex: uma instalação que verifique se o usuário tem o tempo de execução .NEt apropriado, etc...) [/quote]

Não, você precisará criar a sua própria instalação. Nós usamos atualmente o InstallAware para as nossas aplicações. Ele parece amigável o bastante, instala pacotes e tem uma lista de requerimentos pré-construída.

[quote]3) Durante o curso do desenvolvimento, quando o esquema da base de dados se altera e estamos prontos para enviar atualizações, existe alguma facilidade no SF para converter automaticamente a base de dados do usuário? [/quote]

Essa é a função real do DDT. Ele foi desenhado e é usado atualmente para realizar essa tarefa. Na verdade, não é necessário seguir uma sequência linear quando estiver atualizando as bases de dados dos usuários. Por exemplo, digamos que o usuário usa atualmente a versão 2 da sua aplicação e a sua versão publicada atual seja a 5. Não será necessário que o usuário atualize na sequência (2,3,4 e 5). O DDT atualizará as mudanças do esquema da 2 para a 5, simplesmente instalando a versão 5. O Help do DDT tem exemplos mostrando essa funcionalidade.

[quote]4) Eu li que você está planejando lançar um servidor de camada intermediária. Existem direitos autorais ou taxas de licença de servidor envolvidas? Se sim, como é organizado e quando custa? (desta maneira podemos estabelecer um preço final ao produto quando oferecido aos usuários). [/quote]

Respondido na questão 1.

[quote]5) Em um smart client de 3 níveis, será usado um sistema ClickOnce para implantação? [/quote]

Referem-se à instalação do cenário descrito acima.

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[Security]
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[quote]6) Os usuários/funções/direitos de segurança podem ser criados/modificados por usuários sem a necessidade de um desenvolvedor estar envolvido? Em aplicações comerciais, nós não queremos estar envolvidos na configuração dos usuários, funções e direitos. [/quote]

Sim, sua única responsabilidade são obviamente as permissões. Essa é uma aplicação muito bem desenhada proporcionando fechamento de sessão, conjunto de restrições, segurança ao nível do campo, funcionalidade CRUD controlada vía propriedade do objeto de negócio, eventos da aplicação, eventos de dados e capacidade para localização.

[quote]7) Os dados de segurança são armazenados na base de dados? ou arquivos sem estruturas de relações ou XML? [/quote]

Todos os dados de segurança são armazenados no SQL Server e requerem o SQL Server pra rodar. Se você usa alguma coisa diferente do SQL, recomendamos a instalação do SQL Express por segurança.

[quote]8) Quando um usuário se conecta, como o SF mostra quais os formulários/relatórios/etc estão disponíveis para esse usuário? Isso é feito vía menus ou algum tipo de TreeView? [/quote]

Na verdade, esta funcionalidade fica sob seu controle. O processo de login é usado para determinar se o Usuário tem permissão de acesso à sua aplicação. Ele simplesmente retorna um valor Boolean e a entrada é uma determinação programática. Uma vez na aplicação, uma SecurityKey unida a cada formulário determina se o usuário tem acesso a esse formulário.

[quote]9) Dentro de uma aplicação, como certas partes ou regiões desse formulário podem ser ocultados a certos usuários? Isto é feito vía código, configuração do administrador ou como é feito? [/quote]

Sim, isso é realizado a partir do nível do campo de segurança. Dependendo do valor da permissão, um campo pode ser ocultado ao usuário, visualizado com um caracter substituto (x ou * - a escolha é sua), apenas leitura ou estado normal de edição. O propósito do caracter substituto é informar ao usuário que aquele dado existe dentro de um campo, mas não é permitida a visualização.

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[Development]
--------------
[quote]10) Da mesma forma que você forneceu o SF para WinForms, existem planos para desenvolvimento de WebForm do ASP.NET (usando as suas ferramentas) que possam ser utilizados para conectar ao BO. Assim, podemos oferecer WinForm e WebForm com as mesmas telas e características! [/quote]

Este recurso atualmente existe para WebForms. Um BO, uma vez criado, pode ser usado através das plataformas.

[quote]11) Qual é a melhor maneira de desenvolver lotes de impressões e relatórios? [/quote]

Trabalhe duro até as duas da manhã. Temos várias visões internamente quanto ao escritor de relatório perfeito. Estamos tentando definir isso dentro dos próximos 30 dias. Entretanto, alguns de nossos usuários utilizam diferentes geradores de relatórios… todos desde o Active Reports até o DevEx’s XtraReports, então você deve perguntar a alguns deles as suas opiniões.

[quote]12) Quando uma nova aplicação está sendo desenvolvida, nós criamos as tabelas/campos/índices na Base de Dados antes, e depois as importamos para o SF OU criamos o nosso BO baseado na metodología OO e então o SF cria as tabelas de dados apropriadas e seus relacionamentos? [/quote]

Recomendamos usar o DDT para criar todas as tabelas/campos/índices/relações e então implante os esquemas com a base de dados. Adicionalmente, os dados estáticos podem ser implantados para os seus usuários. Dentro do SF, indiferente a como os esquemas são criados, um mapeador de BOs interno é utilizado para a forte tipagem dos campos.

[quote]13) [Como você sabe] A MS está trabalhando na "Relação de Entidade " ou no vNext o que permite ao desenvolvedor criar um diagrama da sua visão de relação do sistema, independentemente de onde os dados estão. Uma vez que o SF tem o seu próprio mapeador O/R, isso é algo que ele possa usar? [/quote]

Iremos incorporar e revisar toda nova tecnologia assim que elas tornarem-se disponíveis. Nós usamos o .NET 2.0 beta por 16-18 meses antes do produto ser lançado. O nosso desejo é estar na vanguarda, mas sem se arriscar demais no caminho. Coisas que mudam suas características ficam obsoletas, mas sim, temos interesse em novas técnicas. A próxima versão do SF irá incluir nossa própria implementação da funcionalidade LINQ para prover suporte que se estende até o simples DLINQ e Entidade LINQ que a Microsoft vai fornecer na próxima versão do Visual Studio (Orcas).

[quote]14) Ao fazer consultas ou filtragem, o desenvolvedor tem que usar a sua sintaxe proprietária ou é um código do SQL? [/quote]

Nada é proprietário, que bom. Ele será SQL, C# ou código VB dependendo do que você estiver tentando realizar.

[quote]15) Seguindo a questão acima, vocês terão suporte à sintaxe LINQ? [/quote]

Sim

[quote]16) Existem planos para suporte do MS WPF para a interface do usuário? [/quote]

Sim

[quote]17) Qual o sistema de grades que vocês suportam/preferem? Usuários gostam de ver seus dados no formato de matriz (Obrigado ao Excel) )[/quote]

Infragistics ou DevExpress

[quote]18) Existem sistemas pré-contruídos no SF que os usuários possam filtrar/pesquisar seus dados por diferentes campos sem que o desenvolvedor tenha que escrever nenhum tipo de filtro customizado; ex.: lista dos clientes cujo equilíbrio > 2000 e o Estado="Flórida"?[/quote]

Na realidade não, mas temos uma grande função browse dialog incorporada para localizar as contas.

[quote]19) Existem documentos/tutoriais suficientes para iniciar? [/quote]

Acho que sim. Tentamos fazê-lo tão fácil quanto possível. IMHO

[quote]20) Vocês recomendam os Vídeos de Treinamento? [/quote]Sim, nós não ouvimos o contrário. Na verdade, nós ouvimos várias boas respostas.

RE: Assorted questions...

Trent L. Taylor — Wed, 21 Feb 2007 10:19:43 GMT

[quote]Is SF 1.6 considered the new version with Linq support and can you send me in the right direction if so?[/quote]

No. The next MAJOR version of StrataFrame....SF 2.0

RE: Assorted questions...

Richard Keller — Tue, 20 Feb 2007 17:42:55 GMT

Up above you had the following quote:

"We will incorporate and review all new technology as it becomes available. We used .NET 2.0 beta for 16-18 months before the product was released. It is our desire to be leading edge without too much bleeding edge on the way. Things change features are deprecated but yes we care about new techniques. The next version of SF will include our own implementation of the LINQ functionality to provide support that extends beyond the simple DLINQ and Entity LINQ that Microsoft will provide in the next version of Visual Studio (Orcas).We will incorporate and review all new technology as it becomes available. We used .NET 2.0 beta for 16-18 months before the product was released. It is our desire to be leading edge without too much bleeding edge on the way. Things change features are deprecated but yes we care about new techniques. The next version of SF will include our own implementation of the LINQ functionality to provide support that extends beyond the simple DLINQ and Entity LINQ that Microsoft will provide in the next version of Visual Studio (Orcas)."

Is SF 1.6 considered the new version with Linq support and can you send me in the right direction if so?

Richard

RE: Assorted questions...

StrataFrame Team — Mon, 15 Jan 2007 10:23:51 GMT

We haven't discussed writing our own report writer... certainly not for the current version. There are so many good report writers out there, that it become a second job just trying to make our product competitive. I won't flat out say "no," because you never know, but if it happens, it won't be any time soon.

RE: Assorted questions...

Chan — Sun, 14 Jan 2007 07:43:42 GMT

Hi,
[quote]Work hard and stay up until 2:00am We have several visions internally as to the perfect report writer. We are trying to flush this out within the next 30 days. However, some of our users use different report generators… everything from Active Reports to DevEx’s XtraReports, so you might ask some of them for their opinions.[/quote]

Are you going to have report writer like XtraReport or FoxFire! / StoneFieldQuery ?

Thank you

RE: Assorted questions...

Ben Hayat — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 14:25:11 GMT

[quote][b]Ben Chase (01/12/2007)[/b][hr]Not a problem... just post again when you have more questions.[/quote]

Thanks! Just got finished the installation. Nice & clean! I really like the way you activate the product. I should do the same thing for ours when it's done!

question: No tutorial in C#??? I don't know VB and much rather to follow the tutorials in C#. Is there another download somewhere?

RE: Assorted questions...

StrataFrame Team — Fri, 12 Jan 2007 13:44:29 GMT

Not a problem... just post again when you have more questions.

RE: Assorted questions...

Ben Hayat — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 18:25:31 GMT

This product sounds pretty good guys! Now it's time to dive in...

Thanks for the prompt support!

RE: Assorted questions...

StrataFrame Team — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:59:15 GMT

[quote]The one issue that I'm trying to relove is how does one provide some sort of a custom menu at run time for the logged in user. How do you do it in your medical app?[/quote]

We build the menu using just a plain-Jane ToolStrip within the winforms designer. For the menu items that should not be visible when the user does not have the proper permissions, we cycle through the menu items and check the permissions and then set the menuItem.Visible = False. It's all done by hand to manage the menu for the application. Each SF form has a ViewSecurityKey property that can be set to a permission and when the permission is not granted, the form shows a message to the user rather than showing the actual form when form.Show() or form.ShowDialog() is called.

[quote]For a developer to start, do you recomend to purchase all three toolkits at first and build the security into the app from ground up?[/quote]

Depending upon how many permissions you have, it can sometimes be easier to go and add the security after you have built the application. However, it is nice to have the security editor to start adding the permissions as you create the application.

[quote]When you say webform development is already part of the kit, do you mean ability to desig an ASP.Net webform in StrataFrame? I did not see any reference to that?[/quote]

Yes, we have a collection of webforms controls that correspond to the winforms controls we have. We also have the equivalent type editors for the webforms development. Even if you decide to forgo using our webforms UI, you can certainly use our business objects since they are UI independent.

RE: Assorted questions...

Ben Hayat — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 16:37:17 GMT

[quote]Actually, this functionality is under your control. The login process is used to determine if the User is granted access to your application. It simply returns a Boolean value and entrance is a programmatic determination. Once in the application, a SecurityKey attached to each form determines whether the user has access to that form.[/quote]

Steve, thanks for all the answers. The one issue that I'm trying to relove is how does one provide some sort of a custom menu at run time for the logged in user. How do you do it in your medical app?

For a developer to start, do you recomend to purchase all three toolkits at first and build the security into the app from ground up?

When you say webform development is already part of the kit, do you mean ability to desig an ASP.Net webform in StrataFrame? I did not see any reference to that?

RE: Assorted questions...

Steve L. Taylor — Thu, 11 Jan 2007 15:18:18 GMT

[quote]I came across this product last night (which kept me up till 2:00 AM ) and has got me pretty excited. One interesting thing is that this product is being used to develop commercial apps which is my direction. Although I'm planning to download the trail version and get into the docs, but there are some questions that the sales team did not have solid answers to them. I'll categorized them to the best I can. Perhaps some of the answers can end up on you website FAQ: [/quote]

Good I guess, I mean the 2:00am thing…

-------------
[Deployment]
-------------
[quote]1) When a developer purchases the development kit, security module and database toolkit, is there any runtime royalties with these kits? [/quote]

All current products are runtime royalty free. The only twist is the Enterprise Server, middle tier. The actual developers SDK is zero cost but when you deploy your product there will be an annual fee assessed to the end-user. Similar to SQL CALs or Citrix. The price is yet to be published but it is our desire to be competitive. When published the rates will be as follows:

Developer Toolkit (SDK) – Free
$995 – Up to 25 users who will access the server (25 CAL) / SERVER
$2495 – Up to 100 users who will access the server (100 CAL) / SERVER
$4995 – Unlimited users / SERVER

All prices are annual. As a side note, to incorporate this feature in your application requires a single line of code.

[quote]2) When my app is ready for deployment, does SF offer any installation packaging system that I can use to deploy my app? (i.e. an installation that verifies whether the user has proper .Net runtime and etc.) [/quote]

No, you would need to create your own install. We are currently using InstallAware for our applications. It seems to be friendly enough, as install packages go, and has a pre-built requirements list.

[quote]3) During the course of development, when the database schema changes and we are ready to send updates, is there any facility in SF to automatically convert the user's database? [/quote]

This is the actual function of the DDT. It was designed and is currently being used to accomplish this task. In fact, it is not necessary to follow a linear sequence when updating the user’s databases. For example, say the user is currently running version 2 of your application and your current published version is 5. It is not necessary for the user to upgrade in sequence (2,3,4,5) the DDT will update the schema changes from 2 to 5 by simply installing version 5. The DDT help has samples showing this functionality.

[quote]4) I read that you're planning to release a middle tier server. Is there a royalty or server license fee involved? If yes, how is organized and how much? (this way we can establish a final product price when offered to users). [/quote]

Answered in question 1.

[quote]5) in 3 tier smart client, will it use ClickOnce system for deployment? [/quote]

Refer to the above described install scenario.

---------
[Security]
---------
[quote]6) Can the users/roles/rights of the security be created/modified by users without the need to the developer being involved? In commercial apps, we do not want to get involved about setting users, roles and rights. [/quote]

Yes, your only responsibility is obviously the permissions. This is a very well designed application providing session locking, restriction sets, field level security, CRUD functionality controlled via the business object properties, application events, data events, and capability for localization.

[quote]7) Is the security data stored in database? or flat file or XML? [/quote]

All security data is stored in SQL server and requires SQL server to run. If you use something other than SQL we recommend installing SQL express for security.

[quote]8) When a user logs in, How does SF display what forms/reports/etc. are available to that user? Is it done via menus or some sort ot TreeView? [/quote]

Actually, this functionality is under your control. The login process is used to determine if the User is granted access to your application. It simply returns a Boolean value and entrance is a programmatic determination. Once in the application, a SecurityKey attached to each form determines whether the user has access to that form.

[quote]9) Within an app, how can certain parts or region of that form be hidden to certain users? Is that done via code or admin setup or what? [/quote]

Yes, this is accomplished via the field level security. Depending on the value of the permission a field can be hidden from the user, displayed with a substitute character (x or * -- your choice) , read only, or normal editing state. The purpose of the substitute character is to inform the user that data exists within a field but not allow viewing.

--------------
[Development]
--------------
[quote]10) The same way you have provided SF for WinForms, is there any plan to have ASP.Net WebForm development (using your tools) that can be used to connect to BO. This way, we can offer WinForm and WebForm of the same screens and features! [/quote]

This feature currently exists for web forms. A BO, once created, can be used across platforms.

[quote]11) What's the best way developing, printouts and reports. (lots of it) [/quote]

Work hard and stay up until 2:00am We have several visions internally as to the perfect report writer. We are trying to flush this out within the next 30 days. However, some of our users use different report generators… everything from Active Reports to DevEx’s XtraReports, so you might ask some of them for their opinions.

[quote]12) When new app is being developed, do we create the tables/fields/indexes in Database first then import them to SF OR do we create our BO based on OO methodology and then have SF create the appropriate data tables and their relationships? [/quote]

We recommend using the DDT to create all tables/fields/indexes/relationships and then deploy the schemas to a database. Additionally, static data can be deployed to your users. Within SF regardless of how the schemas are created an internal BO mapper is used to strong type the fields.

[quote]13) [As you know] MS is working on "Entity Relationship" or vNext which allows the developer to create a diagram of his view of the system relationship regardless where the data is. Since SF has it's own O/R mapping, is this something SF might use? [/quote]

We will incorporate and review all new technology as it becomes available. We used .NET 2.0 beta for 16-18 months before the product was released. It is our desire to be leading edge without too much bleeding edge on the way. Things change features are deprecated but yes we care about new techniques. The next version of SF will include our own implementation of the LINQ functionality to provide support that extends beyond the simple DLINQ and Entity LINQ that Microsoft will provide in the next version of Visual Studio (Orcas).

[quote]14) When doing query or filtering, does the developer has to use your proprietary syntax or is it SQL code? [/quote]

Nothing is proprietary, how nice . It would be SQL or C# or VB code depending on what you are trying to accomplish.

[quote]15) Following the above question, will you support LINQ syntax? [/quote]

Yes

[quote]16) Is there any plan to support WPF for the UI? [/quote]

Yes

[quote]17) What grid system do you support/prefer? Users like to see their data in matrix format (Thanks to Excel )[/quote]

Infragistis, or devexpress

[quote]18) Are there any pre built system in SF that users can filter/search their data by different fields without developer writing all kinds of custom filters. i.e. list of customers whose balance > 2000 and State="Florida"?[/quote]

Not really but we have a great built-in browse dialog function for locating accounts.

[quote]19) Are there sufficient docs/tutorials to get started? [/quote]

I think so; we have tried to make it as easy as possible. IMHO

[quote]20) Do you recommend the Training Videos? [/quote]

Yes we have not heard otherwise. In fact we have had several good responses.