StrataFrame Forum

SQL 2008 Support

http://forum.strataframe.net/Topic25723.aspx

By David Kozikowski - 2/2/2010

Please ADD SQL 2008 Support
By Trent L. Taylor - 2/2/2010

StrataFrame supports SQL Server 2008, so I am unsure of what specifically you are referring to. Please elaborate, thanks.
By Keith Chisarik - 2/2/2010

Not to hijack but, are the new data types supported in the latest release?

http://forum.strataframe.net/Topic25425-12-1.aspx?Highlight=sql2008

Thanks.

By Trent L. Taylor - 2/2/2010

Nope.   As we hashed through some of the emails that went around, this is on the list but we are hoping to have some pretty quick consecutive point releases that will include some more pressing matters.  But we are already re-working the DDT and this is part of that process.
By Keith Chisarik - 6/11/2010

I am on the latest release and DDT still blows up tryiing to deploy DATE and TIME, also these dont have any default value selections in the DDT.

Can you please let me know what the status is on support for new SQL Server data types? Also would like to expand my inquiry to XML and variant datatype and if they are support and if so how they are to be used via BO Mapper, etc

Thank you.

By Ivan George Borges - 6/14/2010

Hi Keith.

We are planning on releasing them and will allocate some time this month to look at them. This has been on the radar for a while and is already something the developing team planned to address, as you know. In our list of most pressing to least in regards to overall community impact, this item is close to the top and will be in there very soon. We will make sure you are the first one to know it when it is ready. Wink

One thing could help us all, could you please give me a list of the data types you are most interested in order of priority? FILESTREAM, for example, will require much more time and some business logic changes. So this one will not be in there the same time as some of the new dates, etc.

Cheers.

By Keith Chisarik - 6/14/2010

In order: VARIANT*, DATE, TIME, XML

We don't plan to use FILESTREAM at this time.

*variant isnt new, but I am putting it in here as I would like to know how to use variant fields with SF, right now it is typed as a XMLReader in the BOMapper and I am not sure how to work with it in that form. It might be supported already, I dont know. I adopted variant as an alternative to XML field type for user customized fields as I figured that might be supported faster than XML

Thanks, I thank you for puting full support for SQL 2008 in the short list.

By Ivan George Borges - 6/14/2010

I know that XML and VARIANT were tried before and had som many truncation issues that the VARBINARY was used instead, and it worked far better. A VARCHAR field could also be used. So, when there are XML contents, we would create a VARCHAR (or VARBINARY if preferred) and store that XML content. Then to retrieve the XML content you can use an XMLReader once at client side.
By Ivan George Borges - 6/14/2010

And thanks, your priorities are going to the list. Wink
By William Fields - 12/21/2010

Hello Ivan,

Can you give us a status on an update to the DDT? We're using the latest version (as of 10/20/10).

We're just starting to build an SQL Server team development environment and intend to use the DDT as our primary tool for development and deployment. However, there is discussion regarding the percieved limitations of the DDT vs using the new Visual Studio 2010 "SQL Server 2008 Database Project" instead.

Any information on DDT improvements and an estimated release date would be helpful to us.

Thanks.
Bill
By Ivan George Borges - 12/21/2010

Hi William.

The developing team is in a period of vacation and as soon as they are back I will forward your request and get back to you.

I haven't tried the VS 2010 Database Project, and so tried to have a look around and see what people are talking about it. It seems like a project to house your scripts and help you deploy them, so far it looks like to me it is far from all the automation DDT gives you, but I would definitely need to study it a bit deeper.

Cheers.
By William Fields - 12/22/2010

Thanks for the response, we'll look forward to what the dev team comes back with.

In addition to feedback on DDT update status, any information that would help us to move forward with our "DDT vs VS2010 Database Projects" discussions would be greatly appreciated. Unfortunately we're newbies to both, which puts us at a disadvantage in attempting an accurate comparison.

Wishing you and yours a Very Happy New Year and Prosperous 2011!

Bill
By Ivan George Borges - 12/22/2010

Thanks Bill.

All the best for you all too! Cool
By Greg McGuffey - 12/22/2010

Bill,

I've done a little digging and the new VS database projects look very nice. It looks like they provide intellisense and validation (ensuring that any referenced objects exists..i.e. that all the tables/columns exists, that called sprocs exists etc.).   It also has some very nice deployment tools, including handling some tough situations like renaming of columns (apparently, if you refactor the name of a column/table, it tracks this and then uses that info to not delete the renamed item, but rather calls the rename sproc instead...nice).   It appears to be able to generate an update script by comparing the current schema to an existing database. If you are real comfortable with SQL scripts and you want to treat your scripts like source code, thus being able to check it into source control to enable diffing and history for the script, the VS db project looks very nice.

Based on what I've read, it seems that it would work well for a typical internal app, where you have development db(s), a test db and a production db.  You could then just use VS to connect to each of these, generate the update script and you're good.  However, if you have customers using your app and thus have many installations of your app/db, then the DDT is way more flexible, as you can deploy the current schema as a package to any installation and it will figure out how to update that db to the current version. Doing this with the VS tools would require deploying every possible update script, determining what version they had, then looking up the correct script.  Really, if you have to manage a set of deployments (not a single production db), the DDT is still the way to go.  If you have a single production db to deal with, then the VS db project might work.

I have only done a bit of reading, so I'd do some testing first. I'd test the following for VS projects:
  • Use an existing project to load the scripts, then take a look and see how that worked.  I'd want to know what it does with sprocs/functions/views etc.  Does it include comments before a sproc or table? (I often times add comments so I remember what the heck a table is for or what a sproc is supposed to be doing.)
  • Check how intellisense works. Does it require a live connection to the db?  How does it handle new columns/tables/etc. that haven't been deployed yet?
  • Rename a table (using refactoring) and see if I can deploy it without dropping the table (test this on a dev db, in case it does drop the table).
  • Rename a column (using refactoring) and see if it can deploy the change without dropping the table.
  • Test deployment to a dummy test and dummy prod db.  I.e. if I have an up-to-date dev db, how hard is it to update a test db that is a bit out of synch and then update a prod db that is quite out of synch.  I'd start with three copies of db, in synch. I'd make a couple of changes to dev, deploying them, then deploy to test. Repeat that 3 times, so the third db is quite out of synch and then try to synch it. 
  • Test how to deal with data deployment, i.e. for static data/configuration data.  Apparently there are pre and post deployment scripts within the project. How would these be used to get configuration data/default users loaded into a db?  How would you handle situations where you only want to deploy data no data exists?  The DDT really handles this stuff nicely. I'm guessing it would be a lot more work using db projects. 
I hope this helps you in your investigation. As I get time I'll try to do some of these tests myself. When I do, I'll report back. 

Have a great holiday season!
By William Fields - 12/22/2010

Thank you Greg, that's very helpful.

I've found that the level of Visual Studio is significant as well. As I understand it, Database Refactoring and Schema Compare capabilities are only available in VS2010 Premium or Ultimate (please correct me if I'm wrong). Without these capabilities, it would seem the value of the deployment experience in VS2010 Database Projects would be diminished.

Bill
By Greg McGuffey - 12/22/2010

Good catch. That is correct, these features are only available in premium and ultimate. Guess I won't be testing this soon (I have pro).

http://blogs.msdn.com/b/vstsdb/archive/2009/10/19/what-s-new-for-data-dude-in-visual-studio-2010.aspx

http://www.microsoft.com/visualstudio/en-us/product-comparison